1 IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF STANISLAUS

3

4 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF )

CALIFORNIA, )

5 )

Plaintiff, )

6 )

vs. ) Case No. 1056770

7 )

SCOTT LEE PETERSON, )

8 )

Defendant. )

9 _____________________________ )

10

11

12 Before the Honorable A. GIROLAMI, Judge, Dept. 2

13 Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 9:40 a.m.

14

15

16

17 PRELIMINARY HEARING

18 SEVENTH DAY OF HEARING

19

20 APPEARANCES:

21 RICK DISTASO and DAVID HARRIS, Deputies District

Attorney, appeared for and on behalf of the People.

22

MARK J. GERAGOS and KIRK W. MCALLISTER, Attorneys at

23 Law, appeared for and on behalf of the Defendant.

24 The DEFENDANT was personally present.

25 __________________________________________________

__________

26 JANICE M. CARDOZO, CSR NO. 5268

Official Court Reporter

27 800 11th Street, Room 220

Modesto, CA 95354

28 (209) 525-6373

740

1 ---o0o---

2 THE COURT: Call the matter of Scott Lee Peterson,

3 1056770. Rick Distaso and David Harris appearing for the

4 People, Mr. Mark Geragos and Kirk McAllister for the

5 defendant. Record reflect the defendant is present.

FBI/CAMERAS

6 Ready to call your next witness, Mr. Harris?

7 MR. GERAGOS: Your Honor, could I be heard just briefly

8 prior to calling the witness?

9 I notice on I think about a -- four or five days ago,

10 while preparing for the doctor's testimony on the DNA, that

11 there was a memo that's Bates number stamped 26194 which was

12 provided, as you can tell by the Bates number stamp,

13 relatively recently. In there, there is a reference to the

14 Modesto resident agency having provided considerable

15 investigative assistance in this matter, Sacramento Division

16 has provided the following assistance, and ERT in the search

17 of Scott Peterson's residence a CCTV camera, under FBI

18 authority, was placed across the street from the Peterson

19 home.

20 I've informally, at least through my office, requested

21 through the discovery people at the DA's Office for anything

22 that was -- that it refers to, because I have no record of

23 anything regarding a closed-circuit TV, any notes of a

24 closed-circuit TV, any tapes representing the closed-circuit

25 TV, even any knowledge or reference in the discovery that

26 I've seen that refers to what house or where across the

27 street a closed-circuit TV was placed.

28 My concern is is that we're about to embark on

741

1 Detective Brocchini and some of the other officers in this

2 case who are going to talk about events that start on the

3 24th and move forward. And we're going to be in a position,

4 I would think, if there are tapes out there, closed-circuit

5 tapes of some kind, that there may be a situation where

6 we've got a Stanton nonstatutory motion to dismiss at some

7 point because that hasn't been provided. I don't want to

8 get to that point, obviously. I'd rather just have the

9 tapes and whatever else the FBI has.

10 I would also mention that I believe we've made repeated

11 requests for anything that the other agencies have. Your

12 Honor has ordered other agencies to comply. Detective

13 Grogan, I think, sent out a memo to the other agencies to

14 please turn over anything that they have.

15 And it concerns me greatly that we're in a situation

16 here, we're in the middle of the prelim, and apparently

17 nobody seems to know where the CCTV was or why none of this,

18 at least on the defense side, has been turned over to the

19 defense, and I think that we need to get to the bottom of

20 that prior to going much farther with police witnesses, at

21 the very least.

22 MR. MCALLISTER: Could I add on to that, Your Honor?

23 I had also asked for any Federal Grand Jury information

24 previously, and we have been provided with Federal Grand

25 Jury subpoenas and the products of those subpoenas. A

26 couple of days ago I was informed that there may have

27 actually been testimony taken at a Federal Grand Jury in

28 Fresno. I can't represent that that's happened, but the

742

1 person that I was talking to believed that there had

2 actually been testimony taken relating to this investigation

3 in the federal court in Fresno.

4 So if that is so, then I would also be requesting

5 transcripts of any of that prior testimony. It would

6 certainly be the same witnesses we'd be dealing with in this

7 case, and it's the same investigation.

8 THE COURT: Who's handling it over here?

9 MR. DISTASO: I will, Your Honor.

10 Your Honor, we have -- we've made multiple requests to

11 the FBI to turn over all of their information. So far, this

12 is what they've -- you know, we've turned over everything

13 that they've given us. I'm not really sure what else we can

14 do in that regard.

15 So, I mean, if the Court wants to make an order that

16 the -- you know, the resident agency of the FBI is ordered

17 to turn over any closed-circuit TV videos, I'm happy for the

18 Court to do that, and if I receive them, I'm happy to turn

19 them over to the defense. But that's pretty much my

20 position on this.

21 I've made repeated requests to many, many agencies to

22 turn over all of their information. I've received

23 information from many, many agencies, and I've turned all of

24 that information over to the defense.

25 THE COURT: What about the Federal Grand Jury? What

26 information do you have there?

27 MR. DISTASO: I have no information on that at all that

28 anyone's testified at a Federal Grand Jury. I can make

743

1 inquiries today. This is the first I've heard of it. It's

2 never been mentioned to me in any informal capacity at all.

3 So, you know, I can have someone call today and try to call

4 around and see if that occurred, but as I sit here today,

5 right now, I don't know.

6 MR. GERAGOS: Could I just briefly respond?

7 What I see as the problem here, in a nutshell, is you

8 have a -- both the -- I think it's the US Supreme Court case

9 Kyles versus Whitley, which was I think a 1998 case, I

10 believe that was by Justice Souter, and in that case,

11 Justice Souter said, it was a case that had arisen out of

12 Illinois, specifically the idea that the DA does not have it

13 in their possession, the information that is potentially

14 exculpatory does not relieve the prosecutor from the burden

15 of obtaining it from the agency.

16 That doctrine, if you will, was incorporated in

17 California in the year 2000 in a case called In re: Brown,

18 in which Justice Brown in a case that arose out of Orange

19 County, held and reversed a capital murder conviction

20 because the -- there was some information I believe in the

21 possession of the coroner's office which the DA did not have

22 and the -- it turned out later to be exculpatory.

23 The DA's position and the AG's position in that case,

24 in the Brown case, was, "Well, we've tried everything we

25 can, the agency didn't turn it over, we didn't have it, so,

26 therefore, there was nothing for us to turn over."

27 Here, my fear is to what's going on, because I've had

28 this situation before with state prosecutions that involve

744

1 task forces, if you will, that involve the Feds, is that the

2 Feds say, basically, "We don't have to listen to any

3 stinkin' state court Judge, and we'll turn over whatever we

4 see deemed fit." I know that's what's gonna happen on the

5 Grand Jury transcripts. They're gonna hide behind Rule 6(e)

6 in the federal court and say that the Grand Jury transcripts

7 are sealed, and we're not gonna get them.

8 Although, I will tell you that in every case I've ever

9 been involved in, if the prosecutor asks for the

10 transcripts, the US Attorney runs right in, gets an order

11 from the duty Judge and gets those transcripts unsealed and

12 gets them over, once there's some heat put on the

13 prosecutor.

14 In this case, I don't think that we rely on or need to

15 rely on Mr. Distaso having to plead with the FBI. I think

16 we have the -- or the Court has the authority to have

17 Mr. Distaso order I believe his name is Terry Scott into

18 this courtroom, and either we -- the Court signs an order

19 shortening time, because I have prepared numerous SDT's

20 covering all of the things that I believe are there, and

21 orders him to return forthwith with every single scrap of

22 document that the FBI has in connection with this case,

23 especially if there are surveillance tapes.

24 And I want the surveillance logs. I know what the Feds

25 have to go through in terms of setting up a surveillance or

26 anything else. They've got a double-blind system in which

27 they set up logs in which they have people briefed and which

28 they make reports, there are FBI 302 reports that are

745

1 prepared in connection with that. All of these things -- or

2 none of these things, I should say, have been turned over.

3 I believe that the only way to get this done is to have

4 Terry Scott brought over here, if he's still the resident

5 agent in charge in Modesto, and have the Court order him

6 forthwith to turn over all of these things. If he wants to

7 then assert some kind of a federal preemption or doctrine,

8 let them do it, or let the Attorney General or the US

9 Attorney run in here.

10 But other than that, short of that, we're entitled to

11 it, and I think it sets up a situation where if we don't

12 have that material, any proceeding here is going to be

13 suspect under the doctrine of Kyles v. Whitley and

14 In re: Brown.

15 THE COURT: If the Bureau's not cooperating with the

16 prosecution, why don't we just send them the subpoena duces

17 tecum? I think that's your responsibility at this stage.

18 MR. GERAGOS: I can do -- well, it is mine to be an

19 effective assistance -- or to provide effective assistance

20 of counsel. I believe it's the prosecution's duty to

21 provide anything, even if it's an agency -- as long as it's

22 an investigating agency. They clearly have stated in the

23 record that I just read on page 26194 that they provided

24 substantial assistance. That would make them or deem them

25 to be a part of the investigative team, deem them to fall

26 under Kyles and In re: Brown. If that's the case, I

27 believe the prosecution does have a duty to get them in

28 here.

746

1 I have the SDT's. I will serve the SDT's. I'd request

2 a order shortening time of some time, or, in the

3 alternative, that Mr. Distaso call Agent Scott, have him

4 come over to this courtroom as soon as possible so that we

5 can order him and personally serve him.

6 MR. HARRIS: Your Honor, if I can address some of these

7 points.

8 First of all, I think the argument of Counsel kind of

9 undercuts itself. They're looking at an FBI document to

10 tell the Court that they don't have any FBI documents. The

11 prosecution has provided hundreds, if not thousands, of

12 pages of reports and documents and notes from the FBI. So

13 it's not a case of -- that we're not providing things from

14 the FBI.

15 In terms of -- as Mr. McAllister said, the FBI did have

16 Grand Jury subpoenas that were going out, there were

17 documents that were produced. Those were some of the

18 earliest discovery that was going out.

19 Additionally, there was some notes or some reports in

20 that that indicated that the agent in charge, Terry Scott,

21 did have to go before the court in Fresno to get an order to

22 release this information because it was part of the Federal

23 Grand Jury.

24 So if that's the testimony that they're referring to,

25 that's not something that's going to be of any exculpatory

26 nature to the defense. It's not something that we're --

27 other than the fact that he had to go to court to say there

28 are Federal Grand Jury subpoenas, we want this information

747

1 released to the prosecution and to the defense.

2 Agent Terry Scott, I understand, has been either

3 promoted or transferred, so he's not the resident agent of

4 Modesto anymore. His reports are included in all of the

5 discovery, his notes are included in all of the discovery,

6 all of the information that he's generated and other agents

7 that have worked on this case, including tips that the FBI

8 has received, letters that the FBI has received, all of that

9 stuff has been provided to the defense.

10 So I think it's -- again, the defense is trying to put

11 the cart before the horse in saying we have to provide them

12 with things because we haven't provided them with things,

13 when in fact we have. And that's a discovery issue. That's

14 not something that should delay us at this point in time,

15 and we should proceed with the witnesses.

16 THE COURT: Well, it seems logical, if there is a

17 videotape, why hasn't that been obtained by the prosecution

18 and then provided to the defense?

19 MR. HARRIS: Well, there are DVD's in which there have

20 been copies of tapes, I don't know if they're the tapes that

21 they're referring to, but DVD's of FBI material that has

22 been provided to the defense. Now, these particular -- I

23 don't know if it's the same ones. I can't say that.

24 It's -- so that's something I can't represent to the Court

25 at this point in time.

26 MR. GERAGOS: Could I also indicate that 26194, the

27 page of the discovery that I was reading from, was not

28 something that was turned over as being the FBI report.

748

1 That was an internal memorandum from the FBI to

2 Dr. Constance Fisher basically saying, "This is what the

3 results of the investigation are so far." That's the only

4 reference anywhere in the 27,000 some odd pages that I've

5 seen, and I've run a search of that database numerous

6 occasions, of anything relating to a CCTV.

7 And I would also state to Mr. Harris that I've reviewed

8 every tape. There is nothing -- and every DVD. There's

9 nothing that purports to be the tapes of a surveillance of

10 my client's house or Miss Peterson's house.

11 There also is absolutely nothing in any of those 27,000

12 pages that purports to be a log, a surveillance log or

13 anything else of the comings and goings out of that house.

14 One of the reasons that this becomes enormously

15 significant is that there is a issue as to whether or not

16 there was a burglary across the street and whether that

17 burglary took place on the 24th or the 26th.

18 If the FBI had their surveillance cameras set up, and I

19 don't know where they were set up, and I defy anybody in the

20 prosecution team to tell me if they have surveillance

21 cameras, I would think that if I were investigating this

22 case, the first thing I'd want to know is, well, what house

23 is it that they're using to surveil the location.

24 And they plan on putting on civilian witnesses,

25 including two neighbors. I think, at the very least,

26 wouldn't I want to know, wouldn't they want to know if one

27 of those two neighbors who they're gonna put on at the same

28 time had the FBI hanging out in their house using

749

1 surveillance cameras? I don't have any of that information.

2 If the surveillance cameras were placed prior to the

3 26th, and it turns out that the burglary across the street

4 didn't take place on the 26th, that would tend to undercut

5 some of the clearance, if you will, of the burglars across

6 the street on that day.

7 At the very least, at a bare minimum, I would think

8 that an investigator in this case would want to know where

9 that information is, why they haven't been provided it, and

10 certainly from the defense standpoint, I want to know why we

11 don't have it.

12 THE COURT: Mr. Harris, your response?

13 MR. HARRIS: In response, I think Counsel are trying to

14 assist us with how to prosecute the case, but he hasn't

15 indicated anything that would show that there is any

16 exculpatory nature of that material.

17 The two witnesses the prosecution intends to call would

18 be testifying to events that happened on the 24th. And I

19 don't think anyone under any scope of the imagination would

20 believe that the FBI was clairvoyant and had a surveillance

21 camera up prior to events coming to law enforcement's

22 attention.

23 So, again, I would just indicate to the Court that this

24 is a discovery issue, it's not something that should delay

25 us at this point in time.

26 THE COURT: I'm not going to take any more time on this

27 issue. Let's get with the witnesses.

28 In the meantime, if you have a subpoena duces tecum you

750

1 can proceed on, handle it that way.

2 Hopefully, informally the prosecution can implore the

3 Bureau to provide that tape, if there is one, to them.

4 Obviously, it looks like from the information you have,

5 there is one, unless they've destroyed it or it could have

6 been a continuous tape that gets destroyed and is no longer

7 there. But we should have a report on that. Otherwise,

8 down the line, that will be one of the issues on a 995, I'm

9 sure.

10 MR. GERAGOS: Thank you, Your Honor.

11 MR. DISTASO: That's fine, Your Honor. I'm ready now.

13

14 ALLEN BROCCHINI,

15 called as a witness on behalf of the People, being first

16 duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

17

18 THE CLERK: Please have a seat, put the microphone

19 around your neck.

20

21 DIRECT EXAMINATION

22 MR. DISTASO: Q. Detective, would you state your full

23 name and spell your last name for the record?

24 A. My name is Allen Brocchini. It's

25 B-R-O-C-C-H-I-N-I.

26 Q. And where are you employed, sir?

27 A. The Modesto Police Department.

28 Q. How long have you been a sworn peace officer in the

751

1 state of California?

2 A. 18 years.

3 Q. And what are your current -- what is your current

4 assignment with the Modesto Police Department?

5 A. Currently assigned to the Crimes Against Persons

6 Unit as a detective.

7 Q. Were you the on-call detective on December 24th of

8 2002?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And did you receive a call regarding Laci Peterson

11 as being a missing person?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Where did you go in response to that call?

14 A. 523 Covena Avenue in Modesto.

15 Q. And is that in Stanislaus County?

16 A. Yes, it is.

17 Q. At what time did you arrive there?

18 A. About 9:30.

19 Q. When you arrived, can you estimate -- what was the

20 extent of the police presence at the house?

21 A. It was -- at the house, there was three or four

22 patrol cars, I saw three or four police officers and a

23 sergeant. But, also, on the way to the call, I could hear

24 there were police in the parks, there was a helicopter that

25 was just launching to search the park, there was dogs in the

26 park. So there was a huge police presence in the area.

27 Q. Okay. And do you know what the purpose of that

28 police presence was?

752

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. What was that?

3 A. Looking for Laci Peterson.

4 Q. Okay. When you arrived at the house, did you

5 receive a briefing from Officer Jon Evers?

6 A. Yes, and there was several officers there and a

7 sergeant.

8 Q. Okay. Is that -- when a detective is called out

9 from the patrol officers, what's your standard practice when

10 you first arrive at a location?

11 A. You get with the other officers that are there, and

12 primarily the first officer that arrived, and they brief you

13 on where the investigation has gotten so far.

14 Q. Okay. And where was the defendant -- do you

15 recognize the defendant as he sits here today?

16 A. I do.

17 Q. And did you see him there on the 24th?

18 A. Yes, I did.

19 Q. And where was he when you first saw him?

20 A. In the driveway.

21 Q. And do you know, was he with any officer?

22 A. He was -- there was a lot of friends and family

23 already at the house and citizens, and I don't think -- I

24 think he was standing with some civilian, not a uniformed

25 officer.

26 Q. Okay. And then how were you -- at some point in

27 the evening were you introduced to the defendant?

28 A. Yes, I was.

753

1 Q. And I guess just for the record, he's wearing a --

2 looks like a gray suit; is that right?

3 A. He's sitting right here with kind of a gray suit on

4 and a powder blue shirt (indicates).

5 Q. Okay. And who introduced you to the defendant?

6 A. Jon Evers.

7 Q. What happened when you first -- when you first met

8 with him?

9 A. I identified myself, and I kind of told him what --

10 what we were gonna do, what I'd like to do.

11 Q. And what did you tell him about that?

12 A. I told him I -- that I'd like him to walk me

13 through the house and point out anything that looked out of

14 place. I told him I'd like to go to his shop and see his

15 boat and I'd like, you know, to interview him.

16 Q. Okay. And just as a foundational matter, you were

17 aware that the defendant was the last -- or the reporting

18 party about Laci being missing; is that right?

19 A. Yes, I was told that at the briefing.

20 Q. All right. When you asked the defendant if you

21 could -- if he would walk you through the house, did he

22 agree to do that?

23 A. Yes, he did.

24 Q. At any time in the evening did he tell you or

25 withdraw that consent?

26 A. No.

27 Q. At any time in the evening did he tell you to leave

28 the house?

754

1 A. No.

2 Q. At any time in the evening did he tell you that he

3 wanted other officers to leave his house?

4 A. No.

5 Q. I'm going to ask you about that in some more

6 detail, but just as a -- right up front, did you sometime in

7 the evening go to the defendant's warehouse at 1027 North

8 Emerald?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. In Modesto?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Now, at any -- did the defendant agree to take you

13 to that location?

14 A. Yes, he did.

15 Q. At any time in the evening did he withdraw his

16 consent from you being there?

17 A. No.

18 Q. At any time in the evening did he tell you to leave

19 the warehouse?

20 A. No.

21 Q. At any time in the evening did he say that he no

22 longer wanted to speak to you?

23 A. No.

24 Q. In your presence or -- or did -- well, first off,

25 in your presence, did the defendant ever tell any other

26 officers that evening he no longer wanted to speak to them?

27 A. No.

28 Q. Did any other officer report to you that the

755

1 defendant no longer wanted to speak to them?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Now, let's go through -- you said that one of the

4 first things you did was you took a basic kind of

5 walk-through of the house, correct?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. All right. If you look at the diagram on the board

8 behind you, I think that's People's -- is that People's 79?

9 Can you see the number on that one?

10 A. Yes, it is.

11 Q. Is that -- do you recognize that as a schematic of

12 520 -- a diagram of 523 Covena?

13 A. Yes, I do.

14 Q. And is that the way it looked to you as you

15 remember seeing it on December 24th, 2002?

16 A. Yes, it is.

17 Q. Did you -- there's a number of photographs -- you

18 can go ahead and have a seat.

19 There's a number of photographs in front of you. I

20 think they're marked People's 48 through 79. Do you see

21 those photographs?

22 MR. GERAGOS: May I approach?

23 THE COURT: Go ahead.

24 MR. DISTASO: Actually, Your Honor, instead of the --

25 Counsel approaching and standing up there while I'm doing my

26 direct, I don't have a problem with the detective holding up

27 each photograph. But it's actually a little distracting.

28 THE COURT: He's entitled to see what he's going to

756

1 refer to before --

2 THE WITNESS: There are actually 45, not 48 --

3 MR. DISTASO: Okay.

4 THE WITNESS: -- through 78.

5 MR. DISTASO: Q. You've looked at those photos briefly

6 now. Do those photos accurately depict the condition of the

7 house as you remember seeing it on December 24th?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And did you direct those photographs to be taken?

10 A. Yes, I did.

11 Q. And who did you tell to take those photographs?

12 A. I told Derrick Letsinger to have ID Officer Doug

13 Lovell take them when he arrived.

14 Q. Okay. And is Derrick Letsinger a MPD patrol

15 officer?

16 A. Yes, he is.

17 Q. Did you ask the defendant's permission regarding

18 taking photographs of the house?

19 A. Yes, I did.

20 Q. What did you say?

21 A. I -- just before we left for the shop, I asked him

22 if it was all right if I had our ID off -- tech come, go

23 into his residence, take photographs and collect any

24 evidence.

25 Q. And what did the defendant say in response to that?

26 A. He said that would be fine.

27 Q. If you could look at People's 70 -- 74 and 75.

28 Just find those exhibits, then you can hold -- if you'd hold

757

1 them up so Counsel would be aware of what you're referring

2 to.

3 A. 74 is a photograph of the closet in the southwest

4 bedroom, and 75 is also a photograph of the closet which

5 shows the purse that was hanging in there.

6 Q. Okay. Those are really -- you don't need to look

7 at 70. 74 and 75 is sufficient.

8 THE COURT: You stated "southwest bedroom." Is that

9 the master bedroom?

10 THE WITNESS: Yes.

11 MR. DISTASO: Q. The purse that is depicted in 74 and

12 75, do you recognize that purse as something you saw that

13 evening?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And can you tell the Court -- actually, before we

16 get to this, let's just go through -- you went through a

17 walk-through of the house with the defendant?

18 A. Yes, I did.

19 Q. Just -- if you could tell the Court what happened

20 in just, you know, that incident.

21 A. We just -- we went in through the front door, and

22 he pointed out his bedroom, showed me where in the master

23 bedroom there was a closet with all female clothing, and the

24 purse that he said that was Laci's, took me into the

25 northwest bedroom, or it's the spare bedroom, showed me the

26 closet there that was all male clothing that he said was

27 his, we went into the den area and showed me the washroom

28 area. The den is actually like a converted garage. Went

758

1 into the baby's room. We went into the bathroom. I went

2 into the backyard through the double French doors. I looked

3 in the backyard.

4 Q. All right. Let me stop you there.

5 So he basically just kind of took you through the whole

6 house?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. All right. Now, going back to the photograph of

9 the purse, did -- did you actually -- did you ask the

10 defendant if that was Laci Peterson's purse?

11 A. No.

12 Q. What did you -- did he say anything about it?

13 A. It was -- well, during the walk-through, Evers and

14 Scott were with me, and they pointed it out to me. They --

15 like Jon already knew that was her purse, but he said,

16 "There's her purse."

17 Q. Okay. So Officer Evers says, "There's her purse"?

18 A. Yeah, her purse was in the closet.

19 Q. All right. And did the defendant say anything in

20 response to that?

21 A. I don't recall.

22 Q. Okay. And did you go and look through the purse?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And can you tell the Court what happened?

25 A. I can't remember if I picked it up or Evers, but

26 all we did was flop it open when I was there and look into

27 it, and basically, "Her stuff is in here," and that's --

28 Q. And what do you mean by "her stuff was in there"?

759

1 A. Her personal items, her wallet and her -- I just

2 remember her wallet, that was important, was in there.

3 Q. Okay. And why was that something that you looked

4 off -- looked at kind of right off the bat?

5 A. It wasn't right off the bat, it was through there,

6 but it was because that was something that I felt Laci

7 wouldn't have left home willingly and left that behind.

8 That was a piece of her personal --

9 MR. GERAGOS: Objection. Motion to strike.

10 Speculation.

11 THE COURT: Sustained.

12 MR. DISTASO: Actually, Your Honor, I wasn't -- I'm not

13 offering it for what Laci's habit or what she would have

14 done, but I was actually offering it for why the

15 detective -- it's part of why he's doing the investigation

16 he's doing.

17 MR. GERAGOS: Same objection.

18 THE COURT: It's still speculative. Sustained.

19 MR. DISTASO: Q. Okay. Did you take anything out of

20 the purse?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Did you hand anything from the purse to the

23 defendant?

24 A. No.

25 Q. There's a photograph, People's 62. Could you find

26 that paragraph and hold it up so we can see which one you're

27 referring to?

28 A. It's the den area, and it's --

760

1 THE COURT: Don't you have an extra copy of these,

2 Mr. Geragos?

3 MR. GERAGOS: I do, but I haven't marked them, and I

4 told Mr. Distaso my eyesight's not that good.

5 THE COURT: It will speed up the proceedings if you

6 look at your copy.

7 MR. DISTASO: Q. Detective, the rug that's depicted in

8 that photograph, do you remember seeing that in the house

9 that evening?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Did you speak to Officer Spurlock about the

12 condition of that rug when he first arrived at the house or

13 first went through the house?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And what did he say about that?

16 A. He said it was scrunched up or it was pushed up all

17 the way against the door.

18 Q. And did he tell you whether or not he noted that

19 fact in his report?

20 A. I don't know if he told me he noted it.

21 Q. But did you actually look in his report and see if

22 that fact was noted in there?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And is it?

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Did you talk to Officer Derrick Letsinger about

27 that rug?

28 A. Yes, I did.

761

1 Q. And what did he say about it?

2 A. He told me --

3 MR. MCALLISTER: Objection. Hearsay.

4 THE COURT: I assume you're wanting it in under 115?

5 MR. DISTASO: I am, Your Honor.

6 THE COURT: Overruled.

7 MR. DISTASO: Your Honor, just so I'm clear, typically

8 in these situations, one counsel handles each --

9 MR. MCALLISTER: I'll be doing it.

10 MR. DISTASO: Okay.

11 Q. The -- in regard to Officer Letsinger -- what did

12 Officer Letsinger tell you about that particular rug?

13 A. He said during the first walk-through that he was

14 on, he saw the rug was pushed all the way up against the

15 door.

16 Q. Okay. And did you take a look at his report to see

17 if that information was noted in his report?

18 A. Yes, I did.

19 Q. Is it?

20 A. Yes, it is.

21 Q. When you were going through the house, did the

22 defendant take you into the area of where the -- I'm trying

23 to think of how to describe it -- where the washer and dryer

24 were?

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. And was there anything unusual about that?

27 MR. MCALLISTER: Objection. That calls for

28 speculation.

762

1 THE COURT: Sustained.

2 MR. DISTASO: Q. Well, just describe what you saw,

3 then.

4 A. Well, I saw that there was a pile of white towels,

5 dirty white towels on the top of the washing machine or the

6 dryer, and the clothing Scott told me he was wearing he said

7 he washed. So I looked into the washing machine.

8 Q. Okay. We'll get to that in a minute.

9 Did the defendant make any comments to you about the

10 maid being in the house?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And what was that?

13 A. He said they had a maid, and she was there on the

14 23rd, on Monday. She came every two weeks. He thought it

15 was her third time there on Monday. And he gave me her

16 name, Maggie, and he gave me her phone number.

17 Q. Did you also -- did you review any calls from the

18 defendant's cell phone?

19 A. Well, I re -- I -- I -- I reviewed his call

20 history, is one thing I did with his cell phone.

21 Q. Okay. How did you do that?

22 A. He -- I asked him if I could look at his cell phone

23 for the call history, and then he gave it to me, and I went

24 down, and I wrote down every call he received and every call

25 he dialed out. And I put whatever was on the call, if it

26 was a name or if it was a phone number.

27 Q. And what was the number of his cell phone? What

28 was his number?

763

1 A. I might have to look at my report, but it was

2 505-0337, or something similar to that. Can I look at my

3 report?

4 Q. We can -- we'll go back to that in minute.

5 A. All right.

6 Q. Did the defendant ever provide a phone to you with

7 the phone number 499-8427?

8 A. Did he ever provide it to me?

9 Q. Yeah, on the 24th.

10 A. No.

11 Q. As part of your speaking with the defendant, did

12 you ask him what his marital relationship was like?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Did you ask him if he was having any type of

15 affair?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And what did he tell you?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Did you ask him at any time that evening or even

20 within a couple weeks of the 24th, did he ever tell you that

21 he had been having an affair with a woman by the name of

22 Amber Frey?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Initially, when you first arrived at the house, did

25 you notice a dog at all?

26 A. Not when I first arrived. But during the

27 walk-through, I saw the dog.

28 Q. Okay. What was the dog doing when you first --

764

1 first started the walk-through?

2 A. The dog was just in the backyard.

3 Q. Okay. Was it making any noise?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Did you ask the dog -- did you ask the defendant

6 about the dog at all at any time during that evening?

7 A. Yeah.

8 Q. What'd you ask him?

9 A. I asked him how old the dog was, I asked him if it

10 was protective of Laci, whose dog it was.

11 Q. And what -- what did he say?

12 A. He told me it was his dog and it was about eight or

13 nine years old, it was -- he had it before he was married,

14 and it was protective of Laci.

15 Q. Did he -- did he give you any example of how it was

16 protective of Laci?

17 A. He said it would bark at strangers.

18 Q. Did he make any mention of an incident where he had

19 observed the dog protecting Laci?

20 A. He -- he told me if -- where he observed it?

21 Q. Right.

22 A. I mean -- I can't remember.

23 Q. Okay. Did he mention anything about the dog and

24 the pool man?

25 A. He said that the dog was protective of Laci around

26 the pool man if he wasn't there.

27 Q. Did -- going there, do you see People's 48 up

28 there? It's a picture of a mop bucket and some mops.

765

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. If you can just pull it out and just hold it up.

3 A. (Complies.)

4 Q. Did you ask the defendant about that?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And what did he say?

7 A. He said before he left to go fishing, Laci asked

8 him to bring the mop bucket in with water because -- he said

9 that she was pregnant, so she couldn't carry it. He said he

10 brought it in, set it near the front door, and when he left

11 to go fishing, Laci was mopping.

12 Q. How many mops were present? There was one bucket,

13 but how many mops were there?

14 A. Two.

15 Q. Did you ask him how the mop bucket got outside of

16 the house?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. What did he say about that?

19 A. He said when he got home from fishing, he no -- he

20 noticed that when he opened the French doors to come in the

21 back door, the cat and dog ran in and the cat ran towards

22 the bucket. He thought the cat was gonna spill it or drink

23 out of it, so he went over there, and he took it out and

24 dumped it.

25 Q. Going back to the washing machine area, you said

26 you saw some towels on top?

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Did you ask him about the towels?

766

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. What did he say about those?

3 A. He -- he suspected the maid used them the day

4 before. He didn't know how they got dirty or what they were

5 used on. He said when he initially got home, he found them

6 in the washing machine, he's the one that took them out of

7 the washing machine and put them on top so he could put his

8 clothes in the washing machine.

9 Q. Did -- and you said you looked inside and saw some

10 clothes?

11 A. Yes. I actually pulled them out.

12 Q. All right. And did he ident -- what did he -- what

13 did he say about those clothes?

14 A. Those were the clothes he wore fishing.

15 Q. And do you remember what they were?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. What were they?

18 A. They were a pair of blue jeans, a blue T-shirt, and

19 a green pullover, long-sleeved shirt.

20 Q. Did you ask him why he washed his clothes right

21 when he got home that day?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. What'd he say why?

24 A. He said they were wet from the bay and being rained

25 on.

26 Q. Okay. Was there anything else in that -- in the

27 washing machine with those clothes?

28 A. No.

767

1 Q. Was there any other laundry present in that laundry

2 area?

3 A. There was -- not in that laundry area. There was a

4 laundry basket, but it was in the master bedroom

5 overflowing.

6 Q. Was there clothes in that laundry basket?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. If you could look at People's 77. And in that

9 particular room, is that -- was that the spare bedroom where

10 you said the men's clothes were?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Was there -- did you see a bag on the floor in one

13 of the bedrooms?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And can you describe -- describe for the Court what

16 you saw regarding that bag.

17 A. There was a Nike bag on the floor in the spare

18 bedroom directly in front of the open closet doors. It was

19 unzipped, and there was a raincoat or something similar to a

20 raincoat partially pulled out of it.

21 Q. And did you ask the defendant anything about that

22 bag?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. What'd he say?

25 A. I asked him if he took anything out of the bag.

26 Q. What'd he say?

27 A. He said earlier in the morning he removed a pair of

28 white tennis shoes and put them on his wet bar.

768

1 Q. Did you see any tennis shoes on the wet bar?

2 A. I didn't that night.

3 Q. Did you see the position that the cars were in in

4 the driveway of the home when you were there?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Can you describe for the Court how they were?

7 A. Laci's car was parked facing in, so the nose of it

8 would have been facing west, and it was on the south side of

9 the driveway, and Scott's truck was backed in so the nose

10 was facing east, and it was on the north side of the

11 driveway.

12 Q. Can you turn that -- just turn that diagram over.

13 Just flip it around. People's 80's on the back. Do you

14 recognize that as just a different type of diagram of the

15 house?

16 A. Yes, I do.

17 Q. And the way the cars -- do you see the cars down

18 there in the bottom right-hand corner?

19 A. Yes, I do.

20 Q. Both -- just -- which -- I mean, on what side of

21 the car -- if you can just take a pen, take a pen, and just

22 write, just write "Laci's car" and "Scott's car" regarding

23 the two vehicles.

24 A. Right in the car, I'm gonna put "Laci's car." And

25 then inside the truck, I'm gonna put "Scott's."

26 Q. Now, in that diagram, the cars are both facing with

27 their nose in. Is that the way you observed it on the 24th?

28 A. No.

769

1 Q. The defendant's truck was flipped around; is that

2 right?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Okay. You can go back and have a seat.

5 But is that the position the cars were in, though?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. I mean, as far as the physical locations.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. All right. Did you ask the defendant if you could

10 look through the -- look through Laci's car?

11 A. Yes, I did.

12 Q. And what kind of car was it?

13 A. It was a green Land Rover.

14 Q. And did you take a look inside?

15 A. Yes, I did.

16 Q. And what -- or I guess did the defendant consent or

17 agree to allow you to look inside?

18 A. Yes, he did.

19 Q. And what did you -- what did you find in there, if

20 anything?

21 A. I saw her cell phone was in there, it was -- the

22 battery was dead --

23 MR. MCALLISTER: Objection. Beyond the scope of the

24 question.

25 THE COURT: Sustained.

26 MR. DISTASO: Can you -- that's fine.

27 THE COURT: The cell phone was in there will be allowed

28 in.

770

1 MR. DISTASO: Q. Did you take a look at the cell

2 phone?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. What did you observe about it?

5 A. That it was -- it would power on, but immediately

6 turn off like the battery was dead, and it was plugged into

7 the dashboard.

8 Q. Did you note anything else that was in that car?

9 A. No.

10 Q. Did you take a look at the defendant's car?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. What type of car was that?

13 A. It was a four-door Ford F-150 truck.

14 Q. And did you ask the defendant if you could look

15 inside his car?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And what'd he say?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Just describe for the Court what you did when you

20 were looking through the car.

21 A. Well, he unlocked it for me from his remote key. I

22 first looked into the back of the truck.

23 Q. Okay. Did you see anything -- what did you see in

24 the back of the truck?

25 A. I saw there was some umbrellas wrapped in a blue

26 tarp, they were in the back of the truck, like against the

27 back of the tailgate, meaning longways. There was also a

28 brown canvas tarp in there, it was kind of bunched up, not

771

1 folded or rolled neatly, and it was against the back of the

2 green toolbox.

3 I got up on the rear of the truck and looked into the

4 green toolbox that was unlocked. I could see there was some

5 clothes in there, there was some rope, nylon rope, and there

6 was some -- a bag of shotgun shells.

7 Q. Okay. Did you subsequently learn what the brown

8 canvas tarp was?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. What was it?

11 A. It was the boat -- it was the tarp that came with

12 the boat when he bought it.

13 Q. Did you ask the defendant about the patio

14 umbrellas?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. What'd he say about them?

17 A. He said earlier that morning he planned on storing

18 them at his shop, so he wrapped them in the blue tarp, put

19 them in his truck, planning on leaving them in his shop.

20 Q. Did you ask him why they were still in the truck?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. What did he say?

23 A. He said he forgot to take them out.

24 Q. Were you present at a search warrant of the

25 defendant's home on December 27th of 2002?

26 A. Yes, I was.

27 Q. Did you observe the patio umbrellas in a location

28 different than the back of the truck?

772

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And where was that?

3 A. They were in the backyard leaning up against the

4 back fence, and the blue tarp was in the shed where the lawn

5 mowers were.

6 Q. Did -- on the 27th, during that search warrant, the

7 boat cover that you testified to about being in the back of

8 the defendant's truck, did you see that boat cover in a --

9 in any different location other than the back of the

10 defendant's truck?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Where was that?

13 A. It was in a small shed on the south side of the

14 house underneath a gas leaf blower.

15 Q. Did you notice if the leaf blower or -- did you

16 notice anything about gas in regards to the leaf blower?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. What was that?

19 A. It was leaking on the tarp.

20 Q. When -- do you remember which door of the truck you

21 opened first?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Did anything happen when you opened the door to the

24 truck?

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. What was that?

27 A. The door of the truck bumped against the door of

28 the Land Rover.

773

1 Q. And did the defendant say anything in regards to

2 that?

3 MR. MCALLISTER: Objection. Irrelevant.

4 THE COURT: Overruled.

5 THE WITNESS: Yes.

6 MR. DISTASO: Q. What was that?

7 A. He offered to either move his truck forward, or he

8 had a glove in his hand, he said, "I'll hold the glove

9 between the door and the Land Rover."

10 Q. Do you know what he was concerned about?

11 MR. MCALLISTER: Objection. Speculation.

12 THE COURT: Sustained.

13 MR. DISTASO: Q. Did he say what he was concerned

14 about?

15 A. No, he didn't say it. I mean --

16 Q. Okay. Did he -- what -- did he put a glove between

17 the cars?

18 A. I told him I'd be more careful and I wouldn't let

19 the door hit -- touch the Land Rover, and he didn't.

20 Q. Is there a rear seat or rear area of the cab

21 portion of the pickup truck?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Did you look in that?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And what, if anything, did you find?

26 A. I saw the camouflage jacket that he told me he wore

27 fishing. There was a Big 5 sport -- Big 5 sports bag in

28 there with some -- with two fishing lures and a receipt.

774

1 There were also two other bags from stores from the mall

2 that had some clothing and some receipts that were kind of

3 outdated.

4 Q. And what did the defendant say about any of these

5 items?

6 MR. MCALLISTER: Objection. Ambiguous.

7 MR. DISTASO: Well, okay.

8 Q. You said you saw a tan jacket, correct?

9 A. Yeah.

10 Q. And what did he say about that?

11 A. He said that was the jacket he wore when he was

12 fishing.

13 Q. And what did he say about the lures?

14 A. I don't think he said anything about the lures.

15 Q. Did he say anything about the Big 5 sales receipt?

16 A. No. I don't think he said anything about it.

17 Q. Did you ask him anything about the fishing license?

18 A. I didn't ask him then about the fishing license.

19 Q. Okay. At some point did you ask him about it?

20 A. I never asked him. He read it in some papers, and

21 then he gave it to me.

22 Q. Okay. So you -- so you saw these items initially

23 in his truck on the 24th, correct?

24 A. Yeah. I just documented what I saw. I wrote -- I

25 looked -- I read the receipt, I saw what was purchased, and

26 I documented it. I didn't ask him about it at that time.

27 Q. All right. Did you -- did you seize those items at

28 that time?

775

1 A. No.

2 Q. At the search warrant of the defendant's house on

3 December 27th, were those items subject to the search

4 warrant?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And were they taken?

7 A. Not from the house.

8 Q. Okay. Were they, though, at some point seized that

9 day?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And --

12 A. They're seized on the 27th.

13 Q. Do you know, were those items in a location

14 different than they were when you saw them in the truck on

15 the 24th?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Where were they on the 27th?

18 A. The Big 5 bag and receipt were on a shelf in the

19 shop at 1027 North Emerald, and the two fishing lures and

20 the camouflage jacket and the rope that was in the green box

21 and the shotgun shells and some clothing were in the boat in

22 a green duffel bag in the shop.

23 Q. Just quick one second. I'm showing Mr. McAllister

24 these photos.

25 Were you -- when you saw the fishing lures, were

26 they -- had they been opened or used?

27 A. No. They were still in the package.

28 Q. And when you saw them on the 27th, were they still

776

1 in the original package?

2 A. Yes.

3 MR. DISTASO: 84 is the lures.

4 MR. GERAGOS: 84?

5 THE CLERK: 84 through 86. 84 through 86.

6 (Whereupon, People's Exhibits 84 through 86 were marked

7 for identification.)

8 MR. DISTASO: 85 is the license. 86 is the receipt.

9 MR. GERAGOS: Let me see the receipt.

10 MR. DISTASO: Q. The -- let me show you People's 84.

11 Do you recognize what's in that photograph?

12 A. Yes, I do.

13 Q. And what is that?

14 A. Those are two fishing lures that I saw in Scott's

15 truck on the 24th and a fishing license that was found in

16 the green bag on the 27th in the boat, a two-day '99 fishing

17 license.

18 Q. Let me show you People's 85 --

19 MR. GERAGOS: I'm sorry. Two-day '99?

20 THE WITNESS: Two-day 1999 fishing license that was

21 found in the green bag in the boat.

22 THE COURT: Mr. Geragos, you'll have to ask

23 Mr. McAllister to ask those questions.

24 MR. GERAGOS: I'll whisper it to him next time, Judge.

25 Thank you.

26 MR. DISTASO: Q. And People's 85, what is that?

27 A. That's a color copy of the fishing license that

28 Scott handed me on the 26th of December.

777

1 Q. Okay. And where was -- where were you when he

2 handed you that license?

3 A. I was standing in his dining room.

4 Q. And People's 86, do you recognize that?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And what's that?

7 A. That's a -- that's a copy of the Big 5 Sporting

8 Good receipt that I saw in Scott's truck on the 24th with

9 the fishing lures in the bag that I later saw on the 27th in

10 his shop.

11 Q. Did -- was there anything else in the pickup truck

12 that you thought was of interest or that you were involved

13 with?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. What was that?

16 A. A handgun.

17 Q. And what type of handgun was it?

18 A. It was a Llama .22 caliber semi-automatic handgun.

19 Q. And was there any ammunition in that gun?

20 A. Yes, there was.

21 Q. Just describe for the Court -- I mean, one was in

22 the chamber, one was in the magazine?

23 A. No, there was no round in the chamber. There was a

24 magazine loaded with live ammo.

25 Q. Did -- on the 24th, did you take that handgun?

26 A. Yes, I did.

27 Q. And what did you do with it?

28 A. I booked it into evidence and had it sent to the

778

1 Department of Justice.

2 Q. At some point in the evening, did you leave your

3 keys in the bed of the truck?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And when was that? Tell the Court what happened

6 with that.

7 A. As soon as I was done searching the truck, we were

8 going to go to the shop, and I couldn't find my keys. I

9 only took about five, ten steps away from his truck when I

10 couldn't find my keys to leave, so I went back and told

11 Scott I might have locked them inside his truck. He

12 unlocked it, but I actually found them. They were just on

13 the hump in the back of the truck. I must have set them

14 there when I was moving the tarps around.

15 Q. Okay. So when you say "the hump," you're talking

16 the wheel well?

17 A. Yeah.

18 Q. And that was in the bed of the pickup truck?

19 A. Yes.

20 THE COURT: Are you talking about the center hump or

21 the side humps?

22 THE WITNESS: One of the -- it was just on the driver's

23 side in the back of the truck. They were just in there. I

24 just -- after I went back with my light, I found them, and I

25 picked them up.

26 MR. DISTASO: Q. How long -- where was the defendant

27 when that happened?

28 A. He was with -- he was right a couple feet, ten --

779

1 five, ten feet away from me.

2 Q. Did you receive a receipt from detective or --

3 Detective Evers that the defendant gave him from the

4 Berkeley Marina?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Now, does that -- what we just went through, does

7 that cover what occurred at the defendant's house on

8 December 24th?

9 A. I mean, he -- you mean besides our conversation? I

10 mean, he told me stuff while we were in the house.

11 Q. Right.

12 A. But that covers what I did.

13 Q. Okay. After you finished looking at the vehicles,

14 did you ask the defendant if he would take you to the shop?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And how did you go to the shop?

17 A. He drove with me in my unmarked vehicle.

18 Q. Okay. And where did he sit?

19 A. In the front passenger seat.

20 Q. At any time that evening was the defendant placed

21 in restraints?

22 A. No.

23 Q. At any time during that evening was the defendant

24 told he was under arrest or that he was being detained?

25 A. No.

26 Q. When you got to the shop, did you -- who all went

27 to the shop?

28 A. Scott and myself went in my car, and Jon Evers

780

1 followed in his patrol car.

2 Q. And when you got to this location, what was the

3 address?

4 A. 1027 North Emerald. And there was a suite number,

5 but I don't recall what it is.

6 Q. And just what happened when you got there? You

7 first drive up, and what happened next?

8 A. We -- we got out, and it's -- there's a -- like a

9 single car rollup door on the outside and a small door that

10 leads into an office. It's in a warehouse strip-mall-type

11 complex. He unlocked the door, and we went into the office

12 portion first.

13 Q. So the defendant had a key to the office?

14 A. He said he was the only employee and he had the

15 only key.

16 Q. Right. So he opened the door, and who went inside?

17 A. Me and Scott and Jon.

18 Q. And did -- what happened when you got inside?

19 A. He told me there was no electricity.

20 Q. What -- did you question him or press him on that

21 at all?

22 A. No.

23 Q. And what did you see in the shop area?

24 A. I saw a fax machine and a fax and a computer.

25 Q. Did you -- when you saw those items, did you -- did

26 you think about questioning him about his comment regarding

27 the electricity?

28 MR. MCALLISTER: Objection. Leading question.

781

1 THE COURT: Sustained.

2 MR. DISTASO: Q. When you saw those items, what

3 happened next?

4 A. I picked up the fax and saw it was dated the 24th,

5 and I think it said 1428, a time on it, and I questioned him

6 about the fax.

7 Q. And what did he say?

8 A. He said that he had received that fax before -- he

9 thought he received it before he left to go fishing, and he

10 said it was a -- from New Jersey, so it was a three-hour

11 time difference.

12 And so I said it seemed if he got it at 11:30, that

13 would have been kind of late to leave to go to Berkeley.

14 And he thought, well, maybe he got it when he got back

15 from Berkeley, but he remembered getting it and looking at

16 it and reading it.

17 Q. That particular day, on the 24th?

18 A. On the 24th, yeah.

19 Q. What was the -- what type of light source were you

20 using in the office?

21 A. My Streamline flash -- it's just a rechargeable

22 flashlight.

23 Q. Okay. And did Detective Evers -- was he present in

24 the office at the time?

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. And did he also have a flashlight?

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. What happened next?

782

1 A. Well, I asked Scott if he'd roll up the door so I

2 could at least position my patrol car -- or my unmarked car

3 in front of the shop, so I'd have some light besides my

4 flashlight.

5 And he said he would, and he did.

6 Q. Did he open the door then?

7 A. He opened the rollup, he rolled up the door.

8 Q. The main door?

9 A. The main door.

10 Q. Is there a way to get from the office into the

11 warehouse area of the shop?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And is that how you -- did you go into the

14 warehouse area of the shop?

15 A. I did.

16 Q. Okay. I mean, how did you enter the warehouse area

17 of the shop?

18 A. I -- I recall coming through the rollup door.

19 Q. So what light source, then, were you using to look

20 into the warehouse area of the shop?

21 A. The headlights, high beams on my car, and my

22 Streamline.

23 Q. And what did you see inside the shop?

24 A. I saw a boat on a trailer, I saw a flatbed trailer

25 next to it, a forklift behind the flatbed trailer, and then

26 there was pallets of stacked -- pallets of, like, fertilizer

27 product stacked too high all inside the shop. It was pretty

28 full.

783

1 Q. Okay. Let me show you People's 87.

2 THE CLERK: Exhibits 88 to 92. 88 to 92.

3 (Whereupon, People's Exhibits 88 through 92 were marked

4 for identification.)

5 MR. DISTASO: Q. Let's take a look at People's 87. Do

6 you recognize what that depicts?

7 A. Yes, I do.

8 Q. What is that?

9 A. That's a diagram of the shop.

10 Q. And if you could, just -- you can use this pen.

11 It's a little thicker. If you could just write -- just

12 write "rollup door" where the door would be located.

13 A. (Complies.)

14 Q. Okay. And write "office door" where the office

15 door would be located.

16 A. There's two office doors, one that leads from the

17 outside in, one that leads from the inside the office into

18 the shop area.

19 Q. Okay. Just put "inside door" where the inside door

20 would be.

21 A. (Complies.)

22 Q. And you can go ahead and have a seat again.

23 There's a -- what looks -- what appears to be a boat in

24 that diagram. Is that the boat you were talking about?

25 A. Yes, it is.

26 Q. And did you ask the defendant if that's the boat

27 that he took fishing that day?

28 A. Yes, I did.

784

1 Q. And what did he say?

2 A. He said it was.

3 Q. You said there was pallets of -- what did you say

4 there were pallets of?

5 A. Product, is what I called them. I assumed they

6 were fertilizer. He didn't say. But they were just -- they

7 were double stacked pallet on top of pallet, so they were

8 pretty high, maybe ten feet high.

9 Q. And they were throughout the rest of the warehouse?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. These square boxes, there's a 157 on one of them,

12 these square boxes throughout the diagram, is that rec --

13 does that depict those pallets that you just described?

14 A. Most of them. Except for some of the ones on the

15 south wall here, those were small crates, like milk crates

16 next to the boat.

17 Q. Okay. Can you just write -- just so we don't get

18 confused, can you write "small milk crates" where those

19 were? And just write "product" in one of the boxes.

20 A. This was like a saw too. It wasn't product. I'll

21 put "saw" on there if you want.

22 Q. Yeah. Go ahead.

23 A. (Complies.)

24 Q. Okay. That's fine.

25 Now, take a look -- well, actually, let me ask you

26 this: What happened when you were in the shop?

27 A. Well, I looked in the boat, and I took some

28 pictures.

785

1 Q. How did you take pictures?

2 A. I got a 35 millimeter out of my car that I borrowed

3 from a patrolman when we were at the house, and I pointed

4 and pushed the click button.

5 Q. Okay. The -- what were you using for a light

6 source for that -- for taking those photographs?

7 A. Just my headlights. And the camera does have a

8 built-in flash, I -- that I was hoping that was working.

9 Q. Okay. And did you review that film later on at

10 some point?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And did all the photographs come out?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Did some of the photographs come out?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Let me show you what's been marked as People's 88,

17 89, 90, 91 and 92. And take a look at those photographs and

18 see if you recognize those?

19 A. Yes, I do.

20 Q. 88 to 92.

21 And what are -- what do those photographs depict?

22 A. Number 88 is a photo of inside the boat. It shows

23 two fishing poles, a spare tire, a life jacket, some

24 yellow-handled pliers.

25 Q. Did -- did you ask the defendant there at the shop

26 anything about the items that were in the boat?

27 A. No, I didn't.

28 Q. Did the defendant say anything when you were gonna

786

1 take the pictures of the boat, did the defendant make any

2 comment to you?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. What was that?

5 A. He didn't want me to show his boss the photo of his

6 boat in his shop.

7 Q. Did you -- did anything else happen at the shop

8 that we haven't already gone over?

9 A. I -- there was other observations at the shop that

10 you didn't let me describe in these photos.

11 Q. Go ahead. Describe -- I didn't mean to cut you

12 off. Go ahead and describe what was in the -- what those

13 photos depict.

14 A. Number 89 is a photo of inside the boat that shows

15 a portion of an oar, a gas -- a gas can for the boat, and

16 the green canvas bag.

17 Number 90 shows -- is a picture of the license plate

18 and a portion of the back of the boat and a portion of the

19 flatbed trailer that was next to it.

20 Number 91 is a photo of the inside of the back of the

21 boat showing the battery box, the gas tank, a portion of the

22 more -- motor.

23 And Number 92 is the inside of the boat that shows the

24 tackle box, a portion of the -- the front portion of the

25 oar, and one homemade anchor.

26 Q. Did you -- when you say "homemade anchor," what --

27 what do you -- describe that. What is it?

28 A. It looked like a piece of cement that was made in a

787

1 bucket of some type, and it had a rebar hoop cemented into

2 the top, and it was -- there was loose concrete in the boat,

3 and this block of concrete had, like, chippings gone, like

4 as if was bouncing and breaking up in the boat.

5 Q. Did you ask the defendant about that?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Did you take anything out of the boat?

8 A. No.

9 Q. Did you touch anything in the boat?

10 A. No.

11 Q. So you just looked in the boat and took some

12 pictures?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And did you ever -- did you actually get inside the

15 boat?

16 A. No.

17 Q. So you're doing this all just from standing around

18 the boat or what?

19 A. I might have been -- I was standing on the flatbed

20 trailer next to the boat for some of the pictures, and the

21 other ones, I was standing in front of the boat, like almost

22 outside shooting in.

23 Q. Okay. Can you just take the pen and write on --

24 write on that diagram where the flatbed trailer is, and just

25 briefly describe it for the Court.

26 A. It's right next to the boat, and it was backed in

27 so that the tongue and the front of the boat and the tongue

28 of the boat were kind of even.

788

1 Q. Was the -- was the boat itself on a trailer?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. All right. Separate -- separate from the flatbed

4 that you just talked about?

5 A. Yes.

6 THE COURT: Why don't we take our recess here until

7 11 o'clock.

8 (Recess: 10:45 a.m.)

9 ---oOo---

789

1 November 6, 2003 -- 11:02 p.m.

2 ---o0o---

3 THE COURT: Everyone's present. You may continue,

4 Mr. Distaso.

5 MR. DISTASO: Thank you, Your Honor.

6 Q. Detective Brocchini, where we left off, you had

7 just finished looking through the shop; correct?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Okay. What did you -- what did you do next?

10 A. We drove to the state -- Modesto Police Department

11 where Scott agreed I could interview him.

12 Q. Okay. Did you ask the defendant if he would give

13 you a detailed interview as to his last -- his last contact

14 with Laci Peterson and what he had done during that day?

15 A. I don't think I said "detailed." I just said, "I

16 hadn't been taking notes all day. I'd like to sit down so I

17 could take some notes and get a more thorough statement from

18 you."

19 Q. Okay. And did he say that would be okay?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. When you got back to the Modesto Police Department

22 did you notice anything that caught your attention?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. What was that?

25 A. That my notebook was -- I'd left it in the shop.

26 Q. And what did you say, if anything, to the

27 defendant?

28 A. I said, "Scott, I forgot my notebook in the shop.

790

1 Let's go back and get it."

2 He said, "Okay."

3 Q. All right. Did you go back to the shop?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Who opened the door?

6 A. Scott.

7 Q. Had the door been -- when you left the shop, was

8 the door locked?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. What happened next?

11 A. I followed Scott in with my Streamlight. We went

12 in through the office door, through the inner office door.

13 Scott jumped over the trailer, picked up my bifold. It was

14 in the boat. Handed it to me, and we left, came back to the

15 station.

16 Q. When I asked you if you'd touched anything in the

17 boat, did you touch any of the items in the boat?

18 A. I didn't touch anything in the boat. I set my

19 thing on the boat to take pictures, but I never touched

20 anything in the boat.

21 Q. All right. When the -- okay. And then after he

22 handed you the notebook -- or you said your bifold. Can

23 you -- was it just like a -- can you describe it for us?

24 You don't have --

25 A. It's a black -- fits a legal-size pad in it. It

26 doesn't have a zipper on it. It just opens up and there's

27 some little pockets for business cards and stuff and a legal

28 pad on the other side.

791

1 Q. Okay. And then how did you leave the shop the

2 second time?

3 A. Same way.

4 Q. Okay. Who locked the door?

5 A. Scott.

6 Q. And were you still in your car?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Defendant was still in the right front passenger

9 seat?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And did you drive him back to Modesto Police

12 Department?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. What time was it when you got back to Modesto

15 Police Department?

16 A. About midnight.

17 Q. And midnight on Christmas morning?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And did you then sit down and have an interview

20 with the defendant?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Was that interview audio-taped?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Was it videotaped?

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Do you know what the approximate length of it was?

27 A. One hour.

28 Q. And what did you tell the defendant about the

792

1 interview? When it was over, what was going to happen?

2 A. I would drive him to wherever he wanted to go. I

3 didn't know if he wanted to go home or go to a family

4 friend's house, family member's house.

5 Q. Okay. After the interview was completed, what

6 happened?

7 A. I drove him home.

8 Q. And then you let him out at home?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Were there any police officers still in his house

11 at that time?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Were there any police officers present at his

14 house?

15 A. I didn't see any.

16 Q. And then you dropped him off where? I'm assuming

17 in the driveway?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And then you left?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. What did the -- just start from the beginning and

22 tell us, what did the defendant tell you regarding the

23 morning and, you know, the whole day of December 24th, 2002?

24 MR. McALLISTER: Objection. Hearsay.

25 THE COURT: Well, I assume you're going to request to

26 put in items that you assume are mentioned?

27 MR. DISTASO: Yes, Your Honor.

28 THE COURT: Well, I'll overrule it with that proviso.

793

1 MR. DISTASO: Q. What time did the defendant say he

2 woke up?

3 A. He woke up about 8:00 o'clock. Laci had gotten up

4 a little bit earlier.

5 Q. And did he say whether or not they both ate

6 breakfast?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. What did he say?

9 A. He said he got up after Laci, took a shower and

10 went had a bowl of cereal.

11 Q. Did he say what Laci had had for breakfast?

12 A. Said she had a bowl of cereal.

13 Q. What did he say happened next? Or what did he say

14 they did next?

15 A. They watched Laci's favorite show, Martha Stewart.

16 Q. And did he say whether or not they watched the

17 whole show?

18 A. No, he said he didn't watch the whole show, but I

19 asked him what he remembered about the show.

20 Q. Okay. And what did he tell you?

21 A. That they were cooking meringue, something to do

22 with meringue.

23 Q. Okay. Did he tell you anything else about the

24 show, anything else that he remembered?

25 A. No.

26 Q. What did he tell you in regards to going fishing

27 that day?

28 A. That it was a that-morning decision.

794

1 Q. And did he say why he decided to go fishing that

2 day?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Why?

5 A. Said it was too cold to go golfing.

6 Q. Did he tell you what his original plans had been?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. What?

9 A. Go golfing.

10 Q. Okay. Did he tell you anything about the purchase

11 of the boat?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. What did he say about that?

14 A. This was going to be the first time he had used it,

15 first time it had been in the water since he owned it.

16 Q. Okay. Did he tell you -- did he give you an exact

17 date when he had purchased the boat?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Did he say anything about when he purchased it,

20 like this was a year-old boat, ten years? What? Did he use

21 any words to describe in reference to time when he purchased

22 the boat?

23 A. Couple of weeks, and I can't say if it was right

24 during that interview or if it was in the car ride or if it

25 was at the shop, but he said he had it a couple weeks.

26 Q. So at some point in the evening, though, you do

27 remember asking him when he had purchased the boat?

28 A. That's right.

795

1 Q. And his only description in that regard was a

2 couple of weeks?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Did you speak to a man by the name of Bruce

5 Peterson?

6 A. Yes, I did.

7 Q. And does that man have any relation to the

8 defendant?

9 A. No, he doesn't.

10 Q. And what did you speak to him about?

11 A. The boat.

12 Q. What boat?

13 A. The boat -- Bruce Peterson sold the boat to Scott.

14 Q. To the defendant?

15 A. Yes.

16 (Exhibit 93 was marked for

17 identification.)

18 THE CLERK: Exhibit 95. I'm sorry. That's 93.

19 MR. GERAGOS: I was going to say --

20 MR. DISTASO: Yeah, it's 93.

21 MR. GERAGOS: Okay.

22 MR. DISTASO: Q. And what did Mr. Bruce Peterson say

23 about selling the boat to the defendant?

24 A. He said that the defendant showed up at his house

25 with fourteen $100 bills and bought the boat.

26 Q. Did he say what date that occurred on?

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. When was that?

796

1 A. December 9th, 2002.

2 Q. And did he say what was in the boat or what he sold

3 the boat with to the defendant?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. What?

6 A. It had -- I might have to look at my report to

7 be -- to be positive with everything, but it had two --

8 Q. Let me stop you. Did you write a report in regards

9 to speaking to Mr. Bruce Peterson?

10 A. Yes, I did.

11 Q. Did you do that at the time the incident was fresh

12 in your mind?

13 A. Yes, I did.

14 Q. Did you do that for the purpose of recording your

15 recollections of what Mr. Bruce Peterson told you?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Okay. Go ahead and take a look at it.

18 Hold on one second.

19 A. Okay.

20 Q. Go ahead, Detective.

21 A. He had two life jackets, two seat cushions, one

22 oar, a six-gallon gas tank, a battery, a fish finder, a

23 small trolling motor, a tan-colored boat cover. It had two

24 spare tires: one was in the boat; one was attached to the

25 trailer. It also had some wheels attached to the back of

26 the boat that -- they're like -- he described them as

27 four-inch wheels that you would use to roll the boat down a

28 boat ramp, if you couldn't drive it down there on the

797

1 trailer.

2 Q. Okay. Did he tell you when was the last time he

3 had had the boat in the water?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. When was that?

6 A. I think he said September.

7 Q. Just so we're sure, take a look. Do you have the

8 report in front of you regarding when you spoke to

9 Mr. Peterson?

10 A. Yes, I do.

11 Q. And look at the very last sentence on the first

12 page.

13 A. Yeah. He said he had the boat in the lake in

14 September --

15 Q. Okay. Did he say when --

16 A. -- in the fresh water.

17 Q. Yeah, I'm sorry. Did he say whether or not the

18 boat had ever been in saltwater?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. What did he say?

21 A. It had never been in saltwater.

22 Q. Taking a look at -- hold on a second. Here we go.

23 People's 47 is a picture of the boat; correct?

24 A. Boat and the truck, yes, it is.

25 Q. Taking a look at People's 93, do you recognize that

26 document?

27 A. Yes, I do.

28 Q. And what is that?

798

1 A. That was a bill of sale I found in Scott's truck

2 during the service of the search warrant on February 18th.

3 Q. And is that a bill of sale for the boat?

4 A. That's a bill of sale for the boat, signed by Bruce

5 Peterson.

6 Q. Now, going back to the 24th, the defendant said

7 that they'd had breakfast, and what did he say -- he decided

8 to go fishing. What did he say that Laci Peterson was doing

9 at this time?

10 A. He -- Laci asked the defendant to bring in a

11 bucket. She was going to mop, clean up the kitchen, go

12 shopping for a dinner or a brunch they were going to have

13 and then walk the dog.

14 Q. Okay. And did he say what time he left the

15 residence?

16 A. About 9:30 or 9:35.

17 Q. Did he say what Laci Peterson was wearing when he

18 left the residence?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. What was that?

21 A. She had black pants on. She had a white pullover

22 type blouse that didn't have any bucket -- buttons, and it

23 was long-sleeve, and she was barefoot.

24 Q. And did he say what Laci was actually doing when he

25 left? You know, you gave us the rundown of what he said she

26 was going to do. Did he say -- or did you ask him exactly

27 what she was doing when he left?

28 A. Yes.

799

1 Q. What was that?

2 A. She was mopping.

3 Q. Did he say which portion of the house she was

4 mopping?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Where?

7 A. Can I show you on the --

8 Q. Yeah, I was just going to say, actually, if you

9 could just write "Laci mopping" in the area of the house

10 where the defendant told you she was mopping.

11 A. She was mopping right inside these French double

12 doors.

13 Q. Okay. On that diagram, just so we can orient

14 ourselves, can you put where the backyard is?

15 A. (Witness complied.)

16 But it also -- the backyard goes all the way around.

17 Q. Yeah, okay. Go ahead then and just draw an arrow,

18 then, from where you wrote "backyard" to just kind of show

19 where it goes.

20 A. (Witness complied.)

21 Q. And where's the driveway?

22 A. Driveway is -- (Indicating.)

23 Q. Okay. Okay. That's fine, Detective. Thanks.

24 The -- and did the defendant tell you what he did after

25 he left the house?

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. What was that?

28 A. He went to his shop.

800

1 Q. And did he tell you what he did in his shop?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. What was that?

4 A. Said he checked his e-mail. He sent one e-mail.

5 He built a mortising woodworking machine. He hooked up his

6 boat and left for the bay.

7 Q. Did you see when you were there present in the

8 shop, did you see -- or did the defendant point out to you a

9 mortise woodworking machine?

10 A. Yes, he did.

11 Q. What did the defendant tell you he did next?

12 A. He drove to the Berkeley Marina where he launched

13 his boat.

14 Q. Okay. Let me stop you. Did he say he made any

15 stops on the way to the marina?

16 A. No. He drove straight there.

17 Q. Did he say whether or not he took -- he took any

18 food or water with him on his trip?

19 A. He said he didn't.

20 Q. Did he say whether or not he stopped at any time

21 for gas or food or any -- any kind of supplies?

22 A. Just on the way home he stopped for gas.

23 Q. Okay. On the way there is what I'm talking about.

24 A. No.

25 Q. No, he said --

26 A. He did not stop anywhere. He drove straight to the

27 Berkeley Marina.

28 Q. What did he say happened when he got to the

801

1 Berkeley Marina?

2 A. He launched his boat. He drove out of the marina.

3 He said he drove north for two miles to an island, where he

4 saw an island, and he described the island for me.

5 Q. How did he describe it?

6 A. He said it was -- it had trash around it and some

7 broken pier blocks and there was a sign that said "no

8 landing."

9 Q. When you said -- you said "drove." Just so I guess

10 we're clear with the record, when you say he drove north two

11 miles, I mean, was that -- was he in his boat at this time?

12 A. Yeah. He powered his boat for north -- he said a

13 couple of miles towards this island.

14 Q. Are you familiar with the San Francisco Bay, the

15 waters around the Berkeley Marina?

16 A. I am now.

17 Q. I mean, have you been -- since December 24th, 2002,

18 have you actually physically been to the waters around the

19 Berkeley Marina?

20 A. Yes, I have.

21 MR. DISTASO: Okay. This is my next.

22 MR. GERAGOS: 94.

23 (Whereupon defense counsel examined the

24 exhibit.)

25 MR. DISTASO: Q. What -- tell me exactly the exact --

26 as best you can remember, the exact description that the

27 defendant gave you regarding his trip in his boat on the

28 San Francisco Bay. Just tell me again what he said.

802

1 A. He said he launched his boat. He powered it out of

2 the marina, and then he went north a couple of miles to

3 where he could see an island that was -- it was shallow

4 around the island. He could see trash, and he could see

5 like pier blocks, and he saw a sign on the island that said

6 "no landing."

7 Q. You've since been -- let me show you People's -- I

8 mean, you see that diagram, the photograph on the board,

9 People's 94?

10 A. Yes, I do.

11 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with the area that's

12 depicted there?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And where is that area, just generally?

15 A. It's the Berkeley Marina and Brooks Island area of

16 the San Francisco Bay.

17 Q. Okay. Out on the bay, in that area, from the

18 Berkeley Marina, is there any island that is roughly

19 approximately two miles away from the Berkeley Marina?

20 A. North?

21 Q. Yes.

22 A. No.

23 Q. Where -- in that area in the bay, is there -- what

24 islands are present?

25 MR. McALLISTER: Objection. Irrelevant. There are a

26 lot of islands in the bay.

27 THE COURT: Yeah. Sustained.

28 MR. DISTASO: Q. In the area around the Berkeley

803

1 Marina, what islands are present?

2 A. Just that one.

3 Q. Just the Brooks Island?

4 A. Yeah.

5 Q. Across on the far side of the bay, all the way

6 across the bay, is there another island?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. What's that?

9 A. Well, there's Yerba Buena Island and Treasure

10 Island.

11 Q. Okay. This particular -- Brooks Island is

12 approximately how far from the Berkeley Marina?

13 A. Two miles.

14 Q. And what direction does Brooks Island lay from the

15 Berkeley Marina?

16 A. North.

17 Q. Okay. Now, have you actually been out on a boat in

18 an area where you could observe the Brooks Island -- Brooks

19 Island?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Now, if you could, on this diagram, could you just

22 circle -- let me ask you this. Do you see the Berkeley

23 Marina on that diagram?

24 A. Yes, I do.

25 Q. Circle it and then just write "Berkeley Marina" by

26 there.

27 THE COURT: Use a different color.

28 MR. DISTASO: Yeah, I'm going to try -- we're running

804

1 out of pens, unfortunately. Hold on a second, Detective.

2 Let me see if I can get you a better pen.

3 THE COURT: Can't see that.

4 MR. DISTASO: Q. Try it again. You marked it in blue

5 originally; correct?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Try it again with a red pen.

8 A. (Witness complied.)

9 Q. And the Berkeley Marina was the marina that the

10 defendant said he left from; correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Okay. Where on Brooks Island or is there a spot on

13 Brooks Island where there's a sign that says "no landing" or

14 "no trespassing" or something like that?

15 A. "No landing."

16 Q. Okay. Where is that?

17 A. It's right -- I'll put an X right there.

18 Q. Okay. Then just write "no landing" by there.

19 A. (Witness complied.)

20 THE COURT: Just for clarification, looks like there's

21 a road going up to that, quote, "island." I assume if we

22 had the photograph further down, that is in fact an island?

23 THE WITNESS: Yes.

24 MR. DISTASO: Q. Okay. Just for the record, the way

25 the photograph is, the island has a little spike sticking

26 out of the bottom; is that right?

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Does that spike extend all the way to the land?

805

1 A. No.

2 Q. There's water around the other side; correct?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Okay. What did the defendant tell you happened

5 when he got out to this particular location?

6 A. He said he trolled a little bit and then it got

7 choppy and started to rain, and so he went back.

8 Q. Did he say what he was fishing for?

9 A. No.

10 Q. Did you ask him specifically what he was fishing

11 for?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Did he say why he chose that particular location to

14 fish or troll?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Did he say anything about the depth of the water in

17 that location?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. What did he say about that?

20 A. Said it was shallow.

21 Q. And you're familiar -- just so everybody's clear,

22 you're familiar with what trolling is; correct?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Just briefly, what is that? Is that a fishing

25 technique?

26 A. Yeah. You put your line out with a lure on it or a

27 bait, and you kind of drive slow in a circle or somewhere.

28 Q. It's just kind of a way of dragging your lure or

806

1 bait behind the boat?

2 A. Yes, it is.

3 Q. Okay. Did he say how long he did that for?

4 A. How long he trolled for? No, he just said a short

5 time.

6 Q. Did he say how long -- okay. Well, what made him

7 stop fishing? Did he tell you that?

8 A. Said it got too choppy and started to rain.

9 Q. Okay. What did he say in response to the changing

10 weather?

11 A. That he was getting wet and he wanted to go in.

12 Q. Okay. So what did he do?

13 A. He powered his boat in back to the marina.

14 Q. Okay. What happened then? What did he say

15 happened next?

16 A. He said he spoke to some people, and he said that

17 he had trouble backing his trailer down, and there was some

18 maintenance there that got a good laugh at him trying to

19 back up.

20 Q. Okay. Did he say why they were laughing at him

21 backing up?

22 A. He was having a hard time backing his trailer down.

23 Q. What did he say happened next?

24 A. He hooked his boat up to the trailer, and then he

25 started for home, and then he called Laci; he called Laci's

26 cell phone.

27 Q. Did he say where he was when he called Laci's cell

28 phone?

807

1 A. Said he was in Berkeley.

2 Q. Did he say whether he got a response?

3 A. He said he left a message. No, nobody answered.

4 Q. Did he -- what did he say happened next?

5 A. He called home and left a message on the home phone

6 also. And then he drove and stopped for gas in Livermore.

7 Q. Okay. Did -- at any time that evening, did the

8 defendant allow you to listen to any of these messages that

9 were saved or that he'd left? I'm sorry.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And what messages did you listen to that he'd left?

12 A. I only listened to the message he'd left on Laci's

13 cell phone.

14 Q. Okay. And did you write down verbatim somewhere

15 what that message was?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And is it in your report?

18 A. Yes, it is.

19 Q. Do you remember off the top of your head verbatim

20 what it was?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Okay. Go ahead and take a look at your report.

23 A. I see it. I'm not going to be able to memorize it

24 and read it. I'll have to read it.

25 Q. We've already gone through all this. Go ahead and

26 just read it straight out of your report.

27 A. "Hey, Beautiful. I just left you a message at

28 home. It's 2:15. I'm leaving Berkeley. I won't be able to

808

1 get to Vella Farms to get the basket for Papa. I was hoping

2 you would get this message and go on out there. I'll see

3 you in a bit, sweetie. Love you. Bye."

4 Q. And after you said he left that message, you said

5 he told you he drove where?

6 A. He stopped for gas in Livermore.

7 Q. Did he say what station he stopped at?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. What was that?

10 A. A Chevron station.

11 Q. What did he say he did next?

12 A. He pumped gas, using his debit card from the pump.

13 He didn't get a receipt. And then he made another phone

14 call and left another message on the home phone for Laci.

15 Q. That particular message, you didn't listen to that

16 one, the one he'd left on the home phone?

17 A. No, I didn't.

18 Q. Okay. What did he say he did next?

19 A. He drove back to his shop, unhooked his boat,

20 checked his e-mail and went home.

21 Q. And when he got home, did he say how he parked his

22 car?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. How?

25 A. He backed it in.

26 Q. Okay. What did he say was the next thing he saw?

27 A. He went in through his back gate into his backyard

28 and saw his dog with the leash on running free.

809

1 Q. Now, this particular house, 523 Covena, does it

2 have a front door in the sense you can just walk up from the

3 street and go into the house?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Okay. To go into the house, you have to go through

6 a gate?

7 A. Yeah, there's two gates --

8 Q. Is that correct?

9 A. There's two gates on the front of the house.

10 You've got to go through one of those gates to get into the

11 house.

12 Q. Okay. So he says he goes into the gate; correct?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And he sees his dog?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. What kind of dog was it?

17 A. Golden Retriever.

18 Q. What did he say he saw?

19 A. The dog had its leash on.

20 Q. And what did he say he did next?

21 A. Took the leash off his dog and put it on the picnic

22 table, and then he went in his -- what he called the back

23 door, which are the double French doors that lead in from

24 the backyard into the little nook area right off the

25 kitchen.

26 Q. Okay. Did he say there was anything unusual about

27 the French doors?

28 A. Yes.

810

1 Q. What was that?

2 A. That they were unlocked.

3 Q. And what did he say happened next?

4 A. The cat and dog followed him into the house, and

5 the cat ran towards the bucket, and so he went over and took

6 the bucket outside and dumped it and took the mops outside.

7 Q. Can you pull People's 94, that photograph, off

8 there and take a look at the diagram of the house again?

9 I don't think it's been marked on there. Can you mark

10 on there where the bucket was when you saw it? It was

11 sitting outside the door?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Just write "bucket."

14 A. I'll put an X and "bucket."

15 Q. Okay. And can you just show the Court where the

16 defendant told you he originally got the bucket from and

17 then took it and where he put it to? You can just draw like

18 a bucket start and then draw a line to where it ended up.

19 A. He didn't tell me where he got the bucket from, but

20 he said he brought it in from outside, and he put it right

21 next to the front door. There's some pigeonhole cubbyholes

22 right next to the front door. I'll put an X. And he said

23 when he got home, he walked it -- and I'll make a line to

24 where the bucket was.

25 Q. Okay. What did he say he did next?

26 A. He went to the washing machine. He removed a pile

27 of white towels from inside the washing machine, and he took

28 off his clothes, put them in the washer and started a wash

811

1 cycle.

2 Q. I already asked you. He said he only washed his

3 own clothes; right?

4 A. Three items of clothing.

5 Q. What did he say he did next?

6 A. He went into the kitchen. He got a box of cold

7 pizza out of the refrigerator. He poured himself a glass of

8 milk, and he says he ate one piece of pizza and part of

9 another piece.

10 Q. What did he say he did next?

11 A. He went into the bathroom and he took a shower.

12 Q. Did he tell you what -- I didn't ask you this. But

13 did he tell you what time he got home?

14 A. Between 6:30 and -- I'm sorry. Between 1630, which

15 would be 4:30 in the afternoon, and a quarter to 5:00.

16 Q. Okay. And after his shower, what did he tell you

17 he did next?

18 A. He checked the messages on his answering machine.

19 Q. And did he say that -- what messages did he say he

20 heard?

21 A. He heard the two messages he had left on his way

22 home, and he heard one from Ron Grantski about Laci picking

23 up some whipped cream for the dinner.

24 Q. And what did he say he did next?

25 A. He called -- he called Sharon.

26 Q. And then what did he do next?

27 A. He said he went across the street and talked to Amy

28 Krigbaum. He left a note on Karen Servas' door, and then he

812

1 returned home and called Sharon again.

2 Q. And what's the next thing he told you?

3 A. When he -- he says he pulled the phone book out

4 when he came back the second time, but Sharon told him that

5 Ron would call the hospitals; he should go call some of

6 Laci's friends and go to the park.

7 Q. What -- all right. Was that the end of the

8 interview, or did he tell you more things that happened that

9 evening?

10 A. Well, that wasn't the end of the interview.

11 Q. Go ahead. What's the next thing he told you, then?

12 A. Well, I asked him if I could -- I asked him about

13 his hands, and if he had fired any guns recently.

14 Q. And what did he say?

15 A. He said he last fired a gun was about a month

16 earlier when he was in Lone Pine pheasant hunting.

17 Q. Okay. And what's the next thing he told you?

18 A. I asked him if I could check his hands for gunshot

19 residue.

20 Q. And what did he say?

21 A. He said I could.

22 Q. What -- did he say anything about that?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. What did he say?

25 A. Well, when he saw me remove the kit, he said -- he

26 wanted to know if the exhaust from the outboard motor could

27 register positive as gunshot residue.

28 Q. And what did you tell him?

813

1 A. No.

2 Q. What's the next thing he told you?

3 A. He -- he told me something. I don't know if I can

4 say it or not. But --

5 Q. Okay. Well, let -- let me ask you this question,

6 then.

7 Did he tell you what his plans were going to be on

8 Christmas Day?

9 A. Yeah.

10 Q. All right. What was that?

11 A. He was going to meet family and friends about

12 8:00 o'clock to continue the canvass.

13 Q. Okay. Was that the end of the interview, then?

14 A. I mean, I -- we talked some more. I told him what

15 my role was in this interview and in this investigation and

16 what he should expect.

17 Q. Okay. What did you tell him about that?

18 MR. McALLISTER: I'm --

19 MR. DISTASO: Hold on.

20 MR. GERAGOS: Could we have a moment?

21 THE COURT: Go ahead. I assume the mic's off.

22 (Whereupon counsel conferred.)

23 MR. DISTASO: Q. Okay. You said you told him what --

24 you told him what your role was; is that right?

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. And what was your role in the investigation?

27 A. To eliminate him as a suspect.

28 Q. Okay. Is that -- in a case like this where you

814

1 have a missing wife and the husband is the last one who has

2 reported seeing her, is that unusual for the police

3 department to eliminate that person, to need to eliminate

4 that person as a suspect?

5 A. No. That's not unusual. That's called for.

6 Q. Okay. Is that something that is standard practice

7 then when you're investigating these kind of cases?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Does it matter who the person is?

10 A. No. No matter who the person is, the last one that

11 was seen with her has to be eliminated as one --

12 Q. Okay. Let's just take. Just for an example, let's

13 just say -- let's take the President of the United States.

14 His wife ends up missing in Modesto --

15 MR. McALLISTER: Objection. Objection.

16 MR. DISTASO: Well, no. Judge, I'm asking him what the

17 standard practice is.

18 THE COURT: Finish your question.

19 MR. DISTASO: Q. And his wife ends up missing in

20 Modesto, and he was the last person to see her, and you were

21 tasked to have the same role you did in this case, what

22 would your job be?

23 MR. McALLISTER: Objection. Argumentative and

24 speculative.

25 THE COURT: Sustained.

26 Let's stick to the relevant evidence in this case.

27 This is a preliminary hearing, Mr. Distaso.

28 MR. DISTASO: Q. Did you have any further contact with

815

1 the defendant that evening?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Okay. What was that?

4 A. About 2:00 o'clock in the morning he called me on

5 my cell phone.

6 Q. What was that conversation about?

7 A. He wanted to know if I took his gun.

8 Q. And what did you tell him?

9 A. I did.

10 Q. And what did he say about that?

11 A. He wished I would have told him.

12 Q. Okay. Did he tell you to give him his gun back?

13 A. No.

14 Q. What did you tell him -- when he said, "I wish you

15 would have told me," what was your answer to him?

16 A. That it was illegal to have a loaded gun in his

17 glove box, and I was going to put it into evidence.

18 Q. And what -- was that the last contact you had with

19 him, you know, either from the 24th or into the early

20 morning hours of the 25th?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. On the 25th, later in the day, did the defendant

23 call you?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And did he ask you any questions?

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. What did he ask you?

28 A. He asked me if we were using cadaver dogs in Dry

816

1 Creek Park looking for Laci.

2 Q. What did you tell him?

3 A. I told him I hadn't considered her being dead yet,

4 so we hadn't used cadaver dogs. I was kind of surprised he

5 was asking me.

6 MR. McALLISTER: Object to his reaction. That's

7 irrelevant.

8 THE COURT: That part is stricken.

9 MR. DISTASO: Q. Did you -- let me just ask you this

10 question. Was there a large media presence during this

11 initial stages of this case?

12 A. There was a large presence of people, civilians,

13 family, friends, and me -- media -- I can't say how many

14 media were there, but there were cameras there in this

15 initial report.

16 Q. And then did the media presence increase as kind of

17 the week of Christmas week progressed, or did the media

18 presence decrease?

19 A. It increased.

20 Q. Was a tip line set up or a hotline, I guess, set up

21 for people to call in tips regarding this case?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And was the Modesto Police Department receiving a

24 large number of calls and tips?

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Did you have any idea how many were coming in on a

27 daily basis?

28 A. Hundreds, if not more.

817

1 Q. On the 30th of December, 2002, did the Modesto

2 Police Department receive a call on the tip line from a

3 woman by the name of Amber Frey?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And were you aware of one of those calls to the tip

6 line?

7 A. I was aware of that one.

8 Q. Okay. How did that take place?

9 A. I was standing behind the tip desk and I was

10 watching one of our clerks who was on headphones, so I

11 couldn't hear what was being said, but I was reading what

12 she was typing in on the tip.

13 Q. And was she typing in a tip from Amber Frey?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And did you then actually take a call or take the

16 phone call at that time?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And did you speak to a woman by the name of Amber

19 Frey?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And then did you actually go down to her home and

22 have an initial interview with her?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And what -- just briefly -- I don't want you to go

25 into great detail. But what was the basic substance of what

26 she told you?

27 MR. McALLISTER: Objection. Hearsay.

28 MR. DISTASO: It's Prop. 115.

818

1 THE COURT: I'll allow it. Overruled.

2 THE WITNESS: She said that she had tried to call me

3 earlier -- this is on the very first phone call when I got

4 her. She said she had tried to call me earlier in the

5 middle of the night, and I wasn't there, so she called the

6 tip line.

7 Said she met Scott in November 20th. He said he wasn't

8 married at the time. Later, about December 9th, she found

9 out he was married and confronted him; and he had told her

10 that he had lost his wife and that she was -- this would be

11 the first holiday that he would be without his wife.

12 She said that he was still calling her. This was the

13 30th. He was still calling her. She said she'd heard from

14 him on the 25th, 26th, 27th, and 28th; and he was still

15 calling her, saying he was out of the country and he would

16 be able to be with her more exclusively like January 25th.

17 MR. DISTASO: Q. Did -- at that point when you

18 received that information, did either yourself or other

19 members of the Modesto Police Department arrange for

20 Miss Frey to tape her phone calls with the defendant?

21 A. I did.

22 Q. And to your knowledge, you don't -- I don't want

23 you to tell me about the substance of every call. But to

24 your knowledge, did Ms. Frey actually tape phone calls

25 between herself and the defendant and hand those tapes or

26 turn those tapes in to the Modesto Police Department?

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. On February 18th of 2003, was a second search

819

1 warrant served on the defendant's home?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Did you find some cell phones?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. What numbers -- what were the actual numbers of the

6 cell phones that you found?

7 A. Can I refer to my report?

8 Q. Yeah. Did you document that information in your

9 report?

10 A. I did.

11 Q. Yeah. Go ahead.

12 A. Ready?

13 Q. Okay. Yeah. Go ahead, Detective.

14 A. (858)232-2203, (209)499-8427, (209)505-0337.

15 That's it.

16 Q. And where were those cell phones found?

17 A. Scott was holding the (209)505-0337 or it was in

18 his truck when we made contact with him. The (209)499-8427,

19 was on a shelf, one of those little cubbyholes right by the

20 front door inside the residence; and the 858 was also in the

21 residence, either in the shelf or right on top of a duffel

22 bag. There was some luggage in there. It was like he was

23 leaving for a trip.

24 Q. Before I go further, the marina receipt that

25 Detective Evers handed you, what did you do with that?

26 A. I booked it into evidence.

27 Q. And the fishing license that you found that you've

28 described for us was -- I mean, the one that's marked, was

820

1 that a two-day fishing license?

2 A. Yes, it was.

3 Q. Did you see any fishing license for 2003?

4 A. For 2003?

5 Q. Yeah.

6 A. No, it hadn't been --

7 Q. No. I'm sorry. I messed that up.

8 Did you see any fishing license -- I mean, any other

9 fishing license for 2002?

10 A. Just the two-day.

11 Q. Did you speak to -- were you present when the

12 defendant was arrested?

13 A. Yes, I was.

14 Q. What?

15 A. Yes. Yes, I was.

16 Q. Okay. And had the defendant changed his appearance

17 in any way?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. There's two photographs up there. Can you take a

20 look at them? People's -- People's 45 and 46.

21 Do those -- do you want to look at these again?

22 MR. GERAGOS: No, I've seen them.

23 MR. DISTASO: Q. Okay. Do those photographs

24 accurately depict the way the defendant appeared on April

25 18th of 2003?

26 A. Yes, they do.

27 Q. And in the prior contacts that you'd had with the

28 defendant that you've told us about in December and in

821

1 February here, had the defendant appeared -- had his

2 appearance, hair color, facial hair been similar to it is

3 here in court today?

4 A. When I first met him on Christmas Eve, it was

5 similar to today. On the 18th when I met him, he had a

6 goatee, but his hair was dark; and on this day, his goatee

7 is much more full with a full mustache, and his hair is

8 blonder.

9 Q. Did you speak to a man by the name of Michael

10 Griffin?

11 A. Yes, I did.

12 Q. And why did you speak to him?

13 A. The car Scott was arrested -- when he was arrested,

14 he was driving a Mercedes. That car was registered to

15 Michael Griffin.

16 Q. Did -- and what did Michael Griffin say about how

17 the defendant came in contact with the vehicle that was

18 registered to him?

19 A. Griffin said he sold it to him.

20 Q. Okay. Had you -- in all the time -- had you been

21 investigating this case from the -- from basically the time

22 on the 24th up until the defendant's arrest?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Had you been aware of vehicles that the defendant

25 had been driving?

26 A. Some of them.

27 Q. And the ones that you were aware of, were you ever

28 aware of him driving a vehicle registered to Michael

822

1 Griffin?

2 A. Just when he was arrested.

3 Q. Okay. What type of car was that?

4 A. It was a 1984 Mercedes convertible.

5 Q. And what color?

6 A. Maroon.

7 Q. What?

8 A. Maroon.

9 Q. And did Mr. Griffin tell you about the defendant's

10 purchase of that car?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. What did he tell you about that?

13 A. That the defendant called him. It was listed in

14 the Auto Trader for $5,000. The defendant came over and

15 negotiated a price of 3,600. The defendant left the

16 apartment, went downstairs, and returned ten minutes later

17 with thirty-six $100 bills, and he bought the car.

18 Q. And did Mr. -- or Michael Griffin tell you what he

19 sold -- what was in the car when he sold it?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. What was that?

22 A. The jack and the spare tire, and that's about it.

23 Q. Did the defendant -- did Mr. Griffin tell you

24 whether or not the defendant purchased the car in his own

25 name?

26 A. Griffin thought he purchased it in his own name.

27 Q. What name did the defendant -- what name did